It is the concept that will underlie this entire article. I am a classic ). To the extent the wound components cause or increase the effects of these two mechanisms, the likelihood of incapacitation increases. By now, people should have realized that it is 100% personal opinion and preference. Let me suggest that politics might be at play. As a non operator and someone who cant get to the range much an article I read made sense to me as simple as it may seem. Rounds that do not hit the intended target are obviously more dangerous to bystanders than a round that hits the target. Since 1959 we have striven as a family-owned business to build a gun shop that is here to grow with your family. Everyone talking about knock down power verses speed seems like. For the sake of interest, some indicators of the penetrative powers of various types of ammunition follow: Virtually all calibres (excepting air weapons) will penetrate the tread or side wall of a motor vehicle tyre. Now marine I hope your watching now instead of using glock 19 in a 9mm counterpart here is a better suggestion why dont you use a glock 21 4th gene to insure ur fellow colleges a better a faster on the spot accuracy with zero recoil it will enable them to be more successful in hitting targets. Its only a pistol. Give SOCOM GLocks which shoot 9mm (Glocks are great guns and I dont have a problem with the 9mm, great cartridge especially with all the advancements over the last 30 years) as I was saying problem solved. With training one would be more calm, but also a persons experience with conflict determines surety. In one case study of a 24-year-old man struck in the chest by a .40-caliber hollow-point pistol round, doctors found organ damage outside the direct path of the bullet. But it is no longer valid against todays terrorists, and the mindset they fight with. In 1985, the US military replaced the .45 ACP with the 9mm round for its standard sidearm. During each tour I was personally involved multiple combat engagements. Its probably just psychological, but real evidence that the .45 is more effective. Mr. Q-Did the owners of their weapons replace recoil springs on a maintenance schedule? According to a sweeping 2016 survey, there were, at that time, more guns in the hands of Americans than there are cars on the road. Got to love 45 in Army Guard 21 years. According to the song the battle for New Orleans, canonbalks were fired from alligator mouths which showed resourcefulness. 0.177" Steel air gun dart will penetrate to shank, in skin, at 120 ft/s. A 35-45 psi Nothing beats a 12 guage with 100 rounds of 00 and slugs. I have my personal preferences and it is the .45 ACP, next is the 40 S&W, down the line a couple of notches is the 9mm. Take it from me, a physics major. With that in mind The most lead I can force through the air, the better. One week later the detective in charge advised me that papa lived, walked out of the hospital and back to Mexico. Somebody needs to vet their sources of information and also use a little common sense. Any other manufacturers that have been notified that they are not going to be selected may be waiting for the DoD to make the official announcement. In Walmart I carry a p99 Walter. In fact, thats what civil liberty defense ammo is all about. Because size is king? Having fired 45 ACP and 9mm at human targets the 9 took 3 sometimes 4 hits c.o.m. But you have to shoot the gun your most accurate with and most comfortable with but if you dont seat the grip of any pistol in the web of the hand deeply all guns no matter what the caliber the gun will whip in the hand. I thought a 55 115lb girl with small hands would want a .380, so I was surprise when she chose a Walther PPS in 9mm. If you dont have an excellent chance against a large carnivore with it. Has anyone thought of learning how to control the .45 instead of wimping out after the first shot? This was not a good CC gun so I traded it for a S&W 39-2 9mm. There ya go compromise just carry both. Shot with 300 win mag at 500 yards. Pistols are primarily used for close combat. One other thought dont ever modify the trigger on your self-defensive gun if you ever have to use it in those situations and lawyer finds that out he will own everything you have. Have you ever saw the wound track from a .230 hst. and Privacy Policy. It makes a bigger hole. The main reason I now have a 9 mm is that at the time, I could not find a small enough 45 that was double action. first handgun i ever fired was glock27 .40SW she was snappy at first but 16 years later and after shooting lots of .45 and 9, i am back to .40SW for HD purposes. Reality. WebThey could balance it by decreasing the damage of other pistol cartridges, like for example, Intermediate cartridges like 7.62x39/5.56x45 could one tap the upper torso and 2 tap lower torso, the .45 ACP could 2 tap torso, dealing just shy the amount of damage required to kill upper torso, include a large penalty with that. For me, that is the Sig p226 9mm. A 9mm round fired at close range to the skull with the correct ammunition will be fatal nearly all the time. And Im not always concerned with concealing. If you wound one man, you take three men out of battle, one injured & two to care for him. Desert Eagle Ammo Type: .45 ACP. They found that their guns wouldnt stop the insurgents charging at them, until seconds or minutes after the bullets entered their adversaries bodies. I use a 1911 as thats what I learned on, prefer the way it feels in my hand. Its unlikely Id ever have to shoot at anything other than paper targets. Glad you are doing well. Even after suffering multiple 9mm gunshot wounds, victims are capable of fleeing considerable distances. Whether fear or anger, adrenaline can make one shake. Which is better? I own one of each 9mil Ruger,Capacity 17 rounds,CZ 45 10 rounds.For stopping power at close range ,I prefer the 45.It is harder to conceal because of its size and weight.The Ruger 9 mil is easier to carry concealed,And a whole lot lighter.Both are comfortable to shoot,to me.A 45 is not for everyone.If you carry concealed the weapon of chose is what you are comfortable with.Handling and performance,depends on the owner.The Military has been changing weapons since day one.I suppose it usually comes down who can supply what the military wants and how much they cost.I personally have handled the Glock 17 and the 19 and dont care for them.I prefer the Ruger or the CZ. I assume that it is cost that is the main concern. The National Rifle Association is one of the most powerful special interest groups in America. Anyone who has seen Clint Eastwoods Dirty Harry movies is familiar with Sergeant Callahans favorite sidekick, his .44 magnum revolver. Durys Gun Shop has served San Antonio and the South Texas region for half a century. When I left LE I traided for a S&W 39-2 9mm. However, from close enough range you could manage. The programs, policies, and people driving positive change in Americas gun violence problem. Confirmed by projectiles taken out of Papa. So Marines are now trained to simply kill them. Last summer had a large male black bear tried to enter my camper. Ask the Mafia. One of the techniques used by several mob hit men was to use a .22 caliber pistol placed in the soft spot behind and slightly belo and have shot that enough also to hit well with it. But its definitely not easy to carry concealed (especially in hot weather) and Im big guy. When a lot of agencies began switching to 9mm from .45 ACP and other heavier calibers, something became very apparent: the FMJ 9mm at high velocity tended Really late to the discussion. The only argument I have ever heard that actually makes any sense is the most recent comment where former law enforcement States the possibility of collateral damage from over penetration. Again this is my opinion and it is based on personal COMBAT EXPERIENCE. But ideally you need a brush rifle. Episode 424 is the perfect companion to this post because we discuss caliber and it's relation to hit factor! But with my Kimber Colt 45 I hit first shot no problem and it left that watermellon in disaster. I have been hand loading my rifle and pistol ammo since 1975. I know the argument for +P with lighter bullets, but I settled on these because they meet my two most important criteria for defensive ammo penetration and accuracy. There are other similar handgun calibers, such as the .44 Special and the .45 Colt, and of course, the .357 SIG and 10mm Auto are Browse our site today and place your order with confidence. Thats a problem, because the force that continues to propel the bullet has essentially been wasted, not transferred to the target. With the 45 2 at most. 3 more replies -8w7- 13 hr. Work scenarios out in your head before they happen. (My opinion) I have long advocated carrying 1911s with 8 extra magazines. Handgun cartridges just dont do that. 158 gr 0.38" Special plain lead bullet will generally not exit from a human body. Will that hollow point still have the same effect? Any round can accomplish that, even the much-maligned .22. Youd be much better served with HOT 357 mag loads or a 44mag. Hunt! There will always by that guy who can take several shots before dropping, and there will always be that perfect head shot. Even a frontal gut shot must penetrate seven or more inches in slender adults for reliable incapacitation. The HRP is concerned with long-term health consequences of radiation exposure such as cancer, as well as adverse effects to the central nervous and cardiovascular systems. My opinion is he got shot in the living room and after he kicked the door in. The deers shot with 9 ran and ran far compared to the short distance the 45 shot deer covered (100yds or less). U.S. Navy SeaBees m60 & 45 caliber was my issue. A .22 will kill you, but it wont blow your head apart, he said. Black Talon ammunition was After reading comments from many veterans here, and from what ive seen on the streets, in a true life or death situation give me the largest slug possible. When the. Anyone using the term bullets to discuss weapon capacity knows little about firearms and has no business writing policy.on them. It depends where they get hit. My father was hit in the arm with a .50 bmg round during the Falklands war and it took his arm off from below the el Some of the best handgun calibers for self defense are: To adequately understand the efficiency of incapacitating a target, we must have some basic understanding of the mechanics of wounding how damage to the human body works. Knock down power. We had a good chuckle out of that one. I have yet to see this. Moreover, law enforcement shootings typically result in only one or two solid torso hits on adversaries. So if my pill hit my target in a less than optimal body section with ball ammo, Ill opt for the bigger ball every time. 45 muzzle velocity is 500 feet per second and the 9mil is 1500 fps. This whole conversation for over 2+ years is hilarious. The argument about effectiveness, capacity, reliability, stopping power, etc has been going on as long as I remember, ad nauseum. Ultimately, your selection of a caliber should be based first on the penetration, and second on the unexpanded size of the round. It is also of considerable general interest if for no other reason than to show how often the movie makers and novel writers make appalling blunders. That the .45ACP slows down so much that its penetration is less effective than a 9mm? All this newer powder and more efficient bullets. It has less recoil, is less expensive and its penetration apparently compares favorably with the larger-sized rounds. With practice almost anything is possible. But the US never officially ratified these protocols, and is not officially bound by them. WebAnswer (1 of 16): It does vary, but most of the time a 5.56mm rifle cartridge will have much more destructive potential than a .45 caliber pistol load does. A .20 gauge double barrel should be good for home defense day for a woman or a guy. Not to kill but enough to let us get to our guys or a firearms. Most of these wanna be gangsters are cowards and are used to shooting at people who dont have guns to shoot back. I am former law enforcement from Florida, depending on the situation I actually carry both my Ruger American 9 mm and the Ruger American 45 caliber ACP oh, not at the same time lol. But by standing a flock of sheep in that position you can make a crowd of men. quick defense trigger and has an extended 17rnd clip. Having had lots of time with all 3 (9mm, 40 s&w and 45acp) yes the 9 is easier to fire and carries more ammo but in my experience you need that extra ammo to stop the threat. Let the operators in theater chose what they want. I will never personally take a life if I have the chance to stop someone with a non lethal GSW. Out charges the male mental with a screw driver in his hand. I do believe that whether its a 9 mm or 45 caliber youve got to be accurate with the placement of that round otherwise youre just wasting shots. 15 round mag of 9mm FMJ unless you hit the heart better plan on using 3 to 5 rounds to stop the person. I meanwtf? I got it cheap and after using it and putting a few hundred rounds without any malfunction and also being very accurate. The .22, meanwhile. There is a wide range of participants and many of them have never fired a gun of any kind. I think the pain element is still to much with paint balls for Obamas new policy I think dart guns with the rubber suction cups would be more his speed. Just as many others I was forced throughout a 25 yr L.E. at 2,690 feet per second, and slows to 840 feet per second at 500 yards. Anyway, stay tuned we shall wait and see. I am older now, living in the city. Fortunately, physiological factors are often not the deciding factor. 0.177" Lead air gun pellet requires a minimum of 300 ft/s velocity to penetrate fresh human skin. American troops in the Philippines discovered this important distinction in the late 19th century. About 5 yrs ago I read a document comparing the damage to a human body wearing, at the time, state of the art LE body armor. Has the Marine Corp's choice to transition from 45 ACP to 9mm duty pistols settled the debate on which caliber is better? the article mentions that where a bullet hits the human body is also a major factor on whether it inflicts a mortal wound. Okay, I have to give them props on this part of the statement because this is 100% correct. What I saw in Korea during the Korean War was that the .45 ACP was the most deadly But are we supposed to believe the difference in air resistance between a 9mm and a .45ACP is that great? However, it does suffer from the same issue as the .40s&w, and that is that its snappier in its recoil impulse. Model. These features, along with superb marketing efforts, have made the 9mm the round of choice, not only for the armed forces, but also for most police departments in the U.S. View our Terms of Service So, yes, they are looking at it with the assumption that modern 9mm JHP bullets perform very similarly to .40s&w and .45acp, and thus will move toward 9mm loadings for sidearms. I have a rock island arms 1911 45, a Walther p22 22cal., A heritage rough rider 22 6 inch barrel. Handgun and Patrol Rifle Instructor, a graduate of Trident Concepts Concealed Carry Instructor course, and a Modern Samurai Project Endorsed Instructor. This remained the norm in the FBI until May 2014. 3 rounds all center mass within 2 inches of each other. The only other way to end an adversarys life-threatening action is through circulatory collapse. As to which will stop a human fasterhavent a darn clue. No vest..and since it was my idea.I Shoot First! In fact, the .223 projectile, a common round for the AR-15, is not much larger than many .22 rounds like the Hornet, typically used for youth shooting sports, target shooting, and hunting varmints. I dont have a dog in that race but it is important to give proper information, not just anything that will satisfy your viewpoint no matter how erroneous. With those factors in mind, Id prefer one of the calibers most likely to immediately incapacitate and prevent return fire. It doesnt get more damaging that that. I like to shoot three-four people a weektime permitting, of course. Would the same shot with More bullet have made a difference i think not. He died in our E.R. Lethality by Caliber: Whats the Best Handgun Caliber For You? The results may surprise many as it did myself. Talk to someone that has been shot with a 9mm FMJ round and ask them what it feels like and contrast that to someone that has been shot with a 45 ACP FMJ round. In this article, we will present what we believe to be the most credible information regarding wound ballistics from studies conducted by the FBIs Firearms Training Academy in legendary Quantico, Virginia. A. H. Hassall, The microscopic anatomy of the human body Wellcome L0024128.jpg 1,100 1,796; 960 KB. May everyone who reads this have a Blessed Day! So its definitely capable. The earlier FBI testing left no doubt that tissue displacement was greater with the larger rounds. Frank K. Seems to me that when using the same style bullet in the 45 and 9mm the 45 would still beat the 9 in stopping power. And both my wife and my son HATE the Kahr (makes their hand hurt). Very accurate and deadly, The bullet travels at 1450 FPS. Another deputy acquired a .45 and was having trouble being able to qualify with it. and departments. It turns out, however, that things arent that simple. When dealing with a highly motivated target, milliseconds matter. In the end of the nearly five-minute shootout, five FBI agents were wounded and twoJerry Dove and Benjamin Groganwere killed. Then get ready for a gunfight. Guy KEPT COMING and managed to shoot back twice. This is because, unless you get a central nervous system hit extremely difficult there is no physiological reason a target would become incapacitated until blood loss and extreme loss of blood pressure occurs. Practice while on the move. The 9 has more A but the M of the 45 has more than enough to overtake the 9 even the newer ones. It has something to do with occasions where they might carry concealed: Since last year, MARSOC has purchased and fielded 1,654 Glock 19s because Raiders needed a reliable secondary weapon that could be used for both a concealed carry profile and a low-visibility profile, and having one approved pistol for all special operators saves money, he said. Handgun velocities top out at around 1,500 fps at the muzzle. 1996 responded to a domestic violence call shots fired. Surprising, I know, given the current state of affairs in DC. So its purpose is based on design. Wondering if these Marine special operators are not only allowed but required to carry exclusively the 15-round Glock 19, why not the slightly larger and higher capacity Glock 17? Most people shot with long gun rounds they tend to be doa . 9mm beats .45acp. I have a medical issue that makes it easier for me to carry a double action in a very small package. interacts online and researches product purchases Great little weapon !!! My bottom line is to shoot what you shoot the best. I will address the people shooting the weapons in the military. The .45 is a less desirable round because of Air Resistance? It may take 2 rounds to take someone down, but the shooter will have a lot easier follow up shots with the smaller 9mm. WebAs shown in Fig. Using the right bullet is where it counts. In other words, negative acceleration and a non-linear path are both occurring. Take this for what its worth. So many guns so little time! The FBI subsequently transitioned from revolvers to semi auto .40 caliber handguns with S&W .40 caliber bullets (a slightly shorter version of the 10mm round).
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